Comments on: Do humans have the same rights as a dog? http://gerryspence.wordpress.com/2009/02/21/do-humans-have-the-same-rights-as-a-dog/ Thu, 31 Dec 2009 13:38:07 +0000 http://wordpress.com/ hourly 1 By: Scott http://gerryspence.wordpress.com/2009/02/21/do-humans-have-the-same-rights-as-a-dog/#comment-1472 Scott Wed, 06 May 2009 13:23:06 +0000 http://gerryspence.wordpress.com/?p=590#comment-1472 What of the brave's old wives? What of the brave’s old wives?

]]> By: Jordon http://gerryspence.wordpress.com/2009/02/21/do-humans-have-the-same-rights-as-a-dog/#comment-1233 Jordon Wed, 01 Apr 2009 00:47:08 +0000 http://gerryspence.wordpress.com/?p=590#comment-1233 Life is often intermixed with currents less than lucid. Kind of ironic, I have never liked the genie of nuclear power being out of the Jar, as nuclear arms are the great curse of the world since the time in 1945, that the A Bomb was exploded in the deserts of White Sand--the Trinity Site. Later, the C hits me.... and what is the remedy, Uranium pellets called seed implants. Now, I go through the airport screening and alarms go off, like I am real hot. The other day, my wife was with me, and said to the XRAY--Arama tech, to check on the screen near his nuts. The airport techies looked at her, with a look like they were about to arrest her. I took uranium pellets rather than being cut on. We all have to make unplesant decisions in life. I feel that all is AOK with Vicki and her Pa.. But, it is not something to put in the right- wrong file, people do the best they can, under difficult circumstances. That is all that can be expected. If this is considered intermixing in a conversation, where I should not be popping off, then please excuse this story on C... Life is often intermixed with currents less than lucid.
Kind of ironic, I have never liked the genie of nuclear power being out of the Jar, as nuclear arms are the great curse of the world since the time in 1945, that the A Bomb was exploded in the deserts of White Sand–the Trinity Site.
Later, the C hits me…. and what is the remedy, Uranium pellets called seed implants.
Now, I go through the airport screening and alarms go off, like I am
real hot. The other day, my wife was with me, and said to the XRAY–Arama tech, to check on the screen near his nuts.
The airport techies looked at her, with a look like they were about to arrest her.
I took uranium pellets rather than being cut on.
We all have to make unplesant decisions in life.
I feel that all is AOK with
Vicki and her Pa..
But, it is not something to put in the right- wrong file, people do the best they can, under difficult circumstances.
That is all that can be expected.
If this is considered intermixing in a conversation, where I should not be popping off, then please excuse this story on C…

]]> By: Vicki http://gerryspence.wordpress.com/2009/02/21/do-humans-have-the-same-rights-as-a-dog/#comment-1140 Vicki Tue, 24 Mar 2009 10:02:37 +0000 http://gerryspence.wordpress.com/?p=590#comment-1140 To My Dad: Remember when the tree fell on that black cow? Poor thing, she ran under a tree for shelter during that summers thunderstorm but the tree didn't survive the storm and fell on her. The storm killed the tree but not her. We found her on the second day after the storm, alive, struggling still against the mighty tree that pinned her to the ground. Remember how you turned the truck around and headed back to the house and I was frantic that we didn't stay to get the mighty oak off the cow and free her? In the mind of the child I was -- The problem was so simple: daddy picks up the mighty oak -- the cow runs free as if it never happened and rejoins the herd with a mighty story of the day the tree fell. Tah-dah!! Where are we going? Why are we leaving her under that tree? Why did you turn the truck around? I advocate for her as fiercely as an 8 year old can. To get my gun. I can't help her. She won't live. She'll just suffer. No no no I beg. We get to the house, I run I to the refrigerated oasis of our air conditioned house. I appeal your decision to mom. She affirms your decision. I stay in the house. You leave. Echo of one simple shot. She's gone. Chain saw, firewood for the winter when the refrigerator is outside and we are in -- Tractor hauls the cow away-- done. Years later, a tree falls on you Dad. A tree called cancer. I'm no child. I'm grown. You won't live. You'll just suffer. I don't turn the truck around and get the gun. I sit with you and wait for death to come. Day in day out for too many days I wait with you for a bullet from God. But in the see hours when you are too weak, too drugged, too out of it for us to talk in my heart I ask you. Should I go get the gun, Daddy? I don't do it. I wait with you for the magic bullet from the sky--I beg God to do it--he takes his jolly good time--months later you are finally free from suffering. Although Im not the idiot I was when I was 8 begging for the life of the cow; My actions were not any more informed when you were suffering than they were that day we found the cow under the tree. And this is what I wonder. Was I right or wrong for not getting the gun? And if I had the guts to ask you when you were lucid and not the coward I was only asking in the see hours when you couldn't really answer -- what would you have said? And do you hold it against me? I know you don't but I do. To My Dad:

Remember when the tree fell on that black cow? Poor thing, she ran under a tree for shelter during that summers thunderstorm but the tree didn’t survive the storm and fell on her. The storm killed the tree but not her. We found her on the second day after the storm, alive, struggling still against the mighty tree that pinned her to the ground.
Remember how you turned the truck around and headed back to the house and I was frantic that we didn’t stay to get the mighty oak off the cow and free her? In the mind of the child I was — The problem was so simple: daddy picks up the mighty oak — the cow runs free as if it never happened and rejoins the herd with a mighty story of the day the tree fell. Tah-dah!!

Where are we going? Why are we leaving her under that tree? Why did you turn the truck around? I advocate for her as fiercely as an 8 year old can.

To get my gun. I can’t help her. She won’t live. She’ll just suffer.

No no no I beg. We get to the house, I run I to the refrigerated oasis of our air conditioned house. I appeal your decision to mom. She affirms your decision.

I stay in the house. You leave. Echo of one simple shot. She’s gone. Chain saw, firewood for the winter when the refrigerator is outside and we are in –
Tractor hauls the cow away– done.

Years later, a tree falls on you Dad. A tree called cancer. I’m no child. I’m grown. You won’t live. You’ll just suffer. I don’t turn the truck around and get the gun. I sit with you and wait for death to come. Day in day out for too many days I wait with you for a bullet from God. But in the see hours when you are too weak, too drugged, too out of it for us to talk in my heart I ask you. Should I go get the gun, Daddy? I don’t do it. I wait with you for the magic bullet from the sky–I beg God to do it–he takes his jolly good time–months later you are finally free from suffering.

Although Im not the idiot I was when I was 8 begging for the life of the cow; My actions were not any more informed when you were suffering than they were that day we found the cow under the tree.

And this is what I wonder. Was I right or wrong for not getting the gun? And if I had the guts to ask you when you were lucid and not the coward I was only asking in the see hours when you couldn’t really answer — what would you have said? And do you hold it against me? I know you don’t but I do.

]]> By: Robert Nix DVM http://gerryspence.wordpress.com/2009/02/21/do-humans-have-the-same-rights-as-a-dog/#comment-1110 Robert Nix DVM Sat, 21 Mar 2009 23:02:31 +0000 http://gerryspence.wordpress.com/?p=590#comment-1110 I came onto Mr Spence's website looking for legal help and stumbled upon this and the tears began to flow as I remembered my mother's slow agony as she died from Lou Gehrig's disease. I was there for most of the year as she lost so many of her abilities as the nerves in her body died making her endure unbearable suffering . She lost her movement, her speech, her ability to feed and even chew easily as the disease imprisoned her in her body with her fully aware the next day would only be worse and she would lose even more of her abilities. My father and I kept her at home and along with one very special person cared for her every need and tried to give her comfort. The doctor treating her disease never asked her how or if she wanted to fight this disease but could only offer feeding tubes and tracheosotomy tubes to delay the inevitable. He never heard her cries from the pain her body experienced or her begging for us to shoot her. She encouraged me in my quest to become a veterinarian and I think I can almost remember when she said to me that she thought I would be very good at it. As I saw her deteriorate, I saw the pleading look for release from this life that I have seen in those pets whose spark of life is fading yet the body keeps them here. And with those pets often in the arms of those who have loved them, I have gently ended their suffering and eased their passage into death and release from the untreatable suffering. I often wonder if I as her son with knowledge and access to easing her passage should have done more. Yet I know she would have not wanted me to sacrifice the rest of my life to end her suffering and that this struggle I am embarking upon to right some of the wrongs in this profession of veterinary medicine is what she would want me to do. For in its way, her death has made me unafraid of whatever will happen to me. For nothing professional bodies or corporations can do to me can be worse than watching her slow death, powerless to give her the comfort I pledged to give to animals in suffering. Thanks for letting me post. Robert J Nix DVM I came onto Mr Spence’s website looking for legal help and stumbled upon this and the tears began to flow as I remembered my mother’s slow agony as she died from Lou Gehrig’s disease. I was there for most of the year as she lost so many of her abilities as the nerves in her body died making her endure unbearable suffering . She lost her movement, her speech, her ability to feed and even chew easily as the disease imprisoned her in her body with her fully aware the next day would only be worse and she would lose even more of her abilities. My father and I kept her at home and along with one very special person cared for her every need and tried to give her comfort. The doctor treating her disease never asked her how or if she wanted to fight this disease but could only offer feeding tubes and tracheosotomy tubes to delay the inevitable. He never heard her cries from the pain her body experienced or her begging for us to shoot her. She encouraged me in my quest to become a veterinarian and I think I can almost remember when she said to me that she thought I would be very good at it. As I saw her deteriorate, I saw the pleading look for release from this life that I have seen in those pets whose spark of life is fading yet the body keeps them here.
And with those pets often in the arms of those who have loved them, I have gently ended their suffering and eased their passage into death and release from the untreatable suffering. I often wonder if I as her son with knowledge and access to easing her passage should have done more. Yet I know she would have not wanted me to sacrifice the rest of my life to end her suffering and that this struggle I am embarking upon to right some of the wrongs in this profession of veterinary medicine is what she would want me to do. For in its way, her death has made me unafraid of whatever will happen to me. For nothing professional bodies or corporations can do to me can be worse than watching her slow death, powerless to give her the comfort I pledged to give to animals in suffering.

Thanks for letting me post.

Robert J Nix DVM

]]> By: Zigby http://gerryspence.wordpress.com/2009/02/21/do-humans-have-the-same-rights-as-a-dog/#comment-1102 Zigby Fri, 20 Mar 2009 22:11:51 +0000 http://gerryspence.wordpress.com/?p=590#comment-1102 Laura, thank you for sharing your story, struggles in life. Suicide is a tradegy, for many. I became curious about the bizzare incidents surrounding James Foresstal. A short recap: "In the early hours of May 22nd 1949 the first U.S. Secretary of Defense James Vincent Forrestal fell to his death from the 16th floor window of Bethesda Naval hospital, where he was treated for “depression”. An official U.S. Navy Medical Review Board convened on his death, after examining all doctors and witnesses who were in the vicinity, could not establish the reason for Forrestal's fall (i.e. suicide, homicide, accident), and although an autopsy was performed, the autopsy report has never been made public. The peculiar circumstances of Forrestal's death, and the U.S. government's withholding of the complete report of the review board until 2004 has led to much speculation and controversy. " And the rest of the story: http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread432033/pg1 Laura, thank you for sharing your story, struggles in life.
Suicide is a tradegy, for many.
I became curious about the bizzare incidents surrounding James Foresstal. A short recap:

“In the early hours of May 22nd 1949 the first U.S. Secretary of Defense James Vincent Forrestal fell to his death from the 16th floor window of Bethesda Naval hospital, where he was treated for “depression”.

An official U.S. Navy Medical Review Board convened on his death, after examining all doctors and witnesses who were in the vicinity, could not establish the reason for Forrestal’s fall (i.e. suicide, homicide, accident), and although an autopsy was performed, the autopsy report has never been made public. The peculiar circumstances of Forrestal’s death, and the U.S. government’s withholding of the complete report of the review board until 2004 has led to much speculation and controversy. ”

And the rest of the story:

http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread432033/pg1

]]> By: Laura http://gerryspence.wordpress.com/2009/02/21/do-humans-have-the-same-rights-as-a-dog/#comment-1058 Laura Sun, 15 Mar 2009 15:19:25 +0000 http://gerryspence.wordpress.com/?p=590#comment-1058 My mother was dying of heart failure in the 1980's when there was no opening things up, fixing a side of one chamber, etc. It was a death sentence to a woman who was in her early 60's and had children while into her 40's with a husband 10 years her senior. My father knew he would live without her, not the plan. My mother battled having to take so many pills to survive, she was angry but then something in her decided to chase death up that tree. She lived calmer, took in less stress and my father began to look younger. The torch had been passed to him to carry his love and care of his wife, his troubled son and his teenage girls. As a couple, I watched them come into a balance and I began a close relationship with a man I had never known. My dad. Two years past, my mother gathered more friends and interests. My father worried about medicines and etc for the first time. She finally went to the hospital for the last time and my mother was found dead on Friday the 13th, her lucky day she always claimed. Mom was brought back and went off to ICU for 6 more terrible days. My mother did not go gently into that night, she fought to live up to the very moment. My father and I knew she would just weaken til her heart gave up her spirit. Like keeping a butterfly alive, I whisphered to my dad. He left the room, all 5ft 5 of him straight, it had to be turned off. His love for her could not have made the wrong decision, but at 74 with 3 children 21,22,and 28 they would not take his signature alone. My father returned to the room a broken man and only I would sign with him. I was her girl, her oldest daughter and later I was to discover the most like my father. Mom left this world as a baby enters it, she lost sight and went to fetal positon. It haunted me for almost 20 years, until at 40, I had my son. I saw the cycle. She fought to stay, because she had so much to stay for here. From my experience of birth, I am sure my son was fighting to stay where he was at also. My little guy had to yanked out good, he also doesn't go gently. Watching her passing no longer haunted me. My father stayed long enough to see us into adulthood. It was the path he gently set that I walk and I found out he was the fighter. Dad could have gone with her, but he was left with plan gone backwards. It was his job to stay and finish the love they started. Courage is to live on afterwards. I found my brother dead, I know suicide also. If you knew the agony you were to cause, you would not do it. That is why it is insane. My mother was dying of heart failure in the 1980’s when there was no opening things up, fixing a side of one chamber, etc. It was a death sentence to a woman who was in her early 60’s and had children while into her 40’s with a husband 10 years her senior. My father knew he would live without her, not the plan. My mother battled having to take so many pills to survive, she was angry but then something in her decided to chase death up that tree. She lived calmer, took in less stress and my father began to look younger. The torch had been passed to him to carry his love and care of his wife, his troubled son and his teenage girls. As a couple, I watched them come into a balance and I began a close relationship with a man I had never known. My dad.

Two years past, my mother gathered more friends and interests. My father worried about medicines and etc for the first time. She finally went to the hospital for the last time and my mother was found dead on Friday the 13th, her lucky day she always claimed. Mom was brought back and went off to ICU for 6 more terrible days. My mother did not go gently into that night, she fought to live up to the very moment.

My father and I knew she would just weaken til her heart gave up her spirit. Like keeping a butterfly alive, I whisphered to my dad. He left the room, all 5ft 5 of him straight, it had to be turned off. His love for her could not have made the wrong decision, but at 74 with 3 children 21,22,and 28 they would not take his signature alone. My father returned to the room a broken man and only I would sign with him. I was her girl, her oldest daughter and later I was to discover the most like my father.

Mom left this world as a baby enters it, she lost sight and went to fetal positon. It haunted me for almost 20 years, until at 40, I had my son. I saw the cycle. She fought to stay, because she had so much to stay for here.

From my experience of birth, I am sure my son was fighting to stay where he was at also. My little guy had to yanked out good, he also doesn’t go gently. Watching her passing no longer haunted me.

My father stayed long enough to see us into adulthood. It was the path he gently set that I walk and I found out he was the fighter. Dad could have gone with her, but he was left with plan gone backwards. It was his job to stay and finish the love they started.

Courage is to live on afterwards. I found my brother dead, I know suicide also. If you knew the agony you were to cause, you would not do it.

That is why it is insane.

]]> By: Meg http://gerryspence.wordpress.com/2009/02/21/do-humans-have-the-same-rights-as-a-dog/#comment-1003 Meg Thu, 12 Mar 2009 03:16:31 +0000 http://gerryspence.wordpress.com/?p=590#comment-1003 Susan: No problem, life is filled with POVs, despending on many things. I know you have great respect for Mr Spence, if one does not share all his POVs, no disrepect is meant. By the way, I had to plug in google to figure out what POV was. POV = point of view. Susan:
No problem, life is filled with POVs, despending on many things. I know you have great respect for Mr Spence, if one does not share all his POVs, no disrepect is meant.
By the way, I had to plug in google to figure out what POV was.
POV = point of view.

]]> By: Susan http://gerryspence.wordpress.com/2009/02/21/do-humans-have-the-same-rights-as-a-dog/#comment-986 Susan Wed, 11 Mar 2009 01:38:42 +0000 http://gerryspence.wordpress.com/?p=590#comment-986 Well, Meg, I'll just have to disagree with your POV and leave it there, out of respect for Mr. Spence. Well, Meg, I’ll just have to disagree with your POV and leave it there, out of respect for Mr. Spence.

]]> By: Meg http://gerryspence.wordpress.com/2009/02/21/do-humans-have-the-same-rights-as-a-dog/#comment-966 Meg Tue, 10 Mar 2009 04:37:07 +0000 http://gerryspence.wordpress.com/?p=590#comment-966 I suggest you, Susan, carefully read the NPR piece put up by David on the members of the Georgia exit group that were recently arrested, No on this Board responded to your hypo, who identified him(her) self as a Doctor, liscensed M D. why you put your hypo to a person who is not a M D., is most bizarre. I suggest you, Susan, carefully read the NPR piece put up by David on the members of the Georgia exit group that were recently arrested,
No on this Board responded to your hypo,
who identified him(her) self as a Doctor, liscensed M D.
why you put your hypo to a person who is not a M D.,
is most bizarre.

]]> By: Meg http://gerryspence.wordpress.com/2009/02/21/do-humans-have-the-same-rights-as-a-dog/#comment-965 Meg Tue, 10 Mar 2009 03:56:01 +0000 http://gerryspence.wordpress.com/?p=590#comment-965 If getting an answer of death laid at someone's door( hypo) is so big, why did she not lay that at Gerry's. Manor, since he put up matters, as the master of that universe, but then the trigger question, was not answered, too, but, was that not odd, in Sue's quest to find some terminators. If getting an answer of death laid at someone’s door( hypo) is so big, why did she not lay that at Gerry’s. Manor, since he put up matters, as the master of that universe, but then the trigger question, was not answered, too, but, was that not odd, in Sue’s quest to find some terminators.

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